Post-Rationalism and Motivation
From CS260SP09
Readings
A Postrational Model of Behavior, Part III: Motivation John Canny, manuscript, 2009.
Recommended
How do self-attributed and implicit motives differ? McClelland, D. C , Koestner, R., & Weinberger, J., Psychological Review 96(4), 690-704, 1989.
Discussions
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Seth Horrigan 13:58, 4 May 2009 (PDT)
The concepts of "landmark" actions in an action map make the idea of action maps and action chains substantially more useful. It seems also that "landmarks" are not necessarily consistent throughout a society and definitely not consistent across societies. The landmarks seem to be developed either through practice or through observation. As we become more familiar with a potential situation we solidify the possible ways to react to developments within that situation; of course, as with the earlier discussion, if the other person has a different frame that causes you to move to an unexpected section of your action map, both parties will have a difficult time interacting.
Brian Tran 16:00, 4 May 2009 (PDT)
Something I would like to explore further is the relationship between ethnomethodology and motivation. According to ethnomethodology, we observe actions in a certain context, internalize those actions in those contexts, and then replicate them. The motivational theories seem to suggest instead that our actions are determined by something intrinsic or by a system of rewards and punishments. I guess this is touched on in the discussion of how people make positive and negative associations to certain activities and situations. For example, a person sees someone beat up badly after going down a dark alley and decides henceforth that going down the dark alley is a bad idea and will result in personal harm; hence, motivate them to not go down that dark alley and take the long way around.
Nicholas Kong 22:50, 4 May 2009 (PDT)
I found the discussion of automatic activities intriguing. However, I'm not sure if I agree that the example automatic activity given ("maintaining one's self-identity") is truly automatic in the sense that it is constantly surfaced and hence relies on no external triggers. Say beneficence is a trait a person identifies with. I would argue that activities maintaining this trait are triggered by situations in which actions could be taken to lead to perceived generosity or stinginess. If the person considers the generous actions as positive outcomes, then the generous actions taken will have more currency in that particular action chain.
The example of "love of foreign culture and language" also struck a chord with me, as I am quite passionate about Japanese and try and study in my spare time. I consider this passion part of my self-identity. As anyone who has studied a foreign language knows, the key to maintaining existing skills and acquiring new ones is immersion and repetition. In that vein, small events will trigger language-related actions, such as drilling flash cards or listening to a podcast. These events could be as small as glimpsing Japanese text whilst surfing the web: I see it, attempt to read it, feel guilty that it has been X days since I last drilled, and begin drilling. It could be argued that the "love for Japanese" activity is different from the "learning Japanese" activity. However, perhaps the "love of foreign culture and language" activity could be considered an umbrella activity for many smaller, more concrete activities, with concrete triggers.
Priyanka Reddy 22:00, 5 May 2009 (PDT)
I thought the discussion of implicit and explicit motivations was interesting, especially the fact that implicit and explicit motivations hardly correlate. It surprises me that people would be so unaware of their implicit motivations. Since implicit motivations might have a biological origin, I wonder if people are, at some level, aware of the implicit motivations, but have convinced themselves (individuals and society as a whole) that the explicit motivations are their real motivation. One example that comes to mind is movie stars, who preach that "it's what's inside that matters", and believe that it's their acting skills, not their looks, that have made them popular. And they probably have convinced themselves that it's true, and maybe it is true - yet, they spend thousands of dollars on their outward appearance because they know in the back their mind, that it's still important for their career.
Also, it mentions that explicit motivations come from society or opinions of people you trust. But, what about people who have convinced themselves of something that's not true (ie. anorexics), and even though the people they care about tell them the truth, they will not believe them. I wonder which category that would fall into.
Kenrick Kin 01:09, 6 May 2009 (PDT)
Priyanka - I would take a guess that implicit motives are pretty much prerequisite, and as such we may not necessarily think them as important enough to truly motivate us beyond any base level. Explicit motivations depend on other people and thus we are more aware of them and are more readily to push ourselves to achieve some measure of self worth that is defined by our external world.
I had been taking a sculpting class which I had been enjoying immensely. Since the class has ended I haven't made any effort to continue sculpting. This topic on motivation has made me wonder why that is the case, or what would get me motivated again. Did I feel more obligated to go previously because I was paying for the class? And now do I just not have enough time? If I enjoy it why don't I make time for it? If there was a sculpting contest of some sort would I feel some desire to compete? If I had more confirmation that I am good at it would I want to do it more? What if there was an attractive girl regularly at the art studio? Apparently I don't get enough implicit enjoyment out of it otherwise I would keep doing it. I think the implicit motivation is certainly there, but that by itself isn't enough.
David (Tavi) Nathanson 02:52, 6 May 2009 (PDT)
Upon reading the list of James' primitive motives, I wondered how many of them could be reduced to evolutionary motives (i.e. staying alive and reproducing). The desire to save, for example, might be due to the fact that saving anything could result in keeping someone alive. Of course, this doesn't quite work when one considers the common act of saving things for sentimental value, which merely makes a person feel better or happier. Perhaps this happiness could be spun as making the person healthier and therefore keeping them alive longer, although that seems extremely far-fetched.
Regarding the idea that "identity is a life story," I wonder about a hypothetical scenario where two people exist who have had the exact same life story, but who have slightly different personalities. Assuming this is even possible (which is clearly isn't), would these two people have the same identity?
Simon Tan 03:43, 13 May 2009 (PDT)
I never realized how controversial the Rorschach test is compared to the TAT, but upon looking further into the details of each, it does seem that the TAT has the potential to draw a lot more information out of a patient than a Rorschach test does. A person could say almost any random thing that comes to mind for a Rorschach test, stop talking, and then leave the administrator to interpret the meaning - this is highly subjective and doesn't really work for people who know what's being asked of them yet do not wish to divulge it.
The TAT asks the person to come up with a story, which is much harder to make completely random. The person is still building a context and generating motivations for characters - there is much more to work with there and I understand why this test is hence accepted far more widely.
